A lot of disco was boring, but a lot of great music was lumped under that name and rejected, not for musical reasons, but for what MQ identified, IMO correctly, as the anti-joy homophobia (and racism) of mainstream white American youth. (And some wonderful stuff still called disco is really pre-House, pre-electronica...I Feel Love by Donna Summer anyone?)

Punk specifically rejected funkiness (except your love the Gang of Four I can't think of any bands that embraced it), with Johnny Ramone (whom I love, God Bless Him) saying outright that he wanted to create a music with nothing black in it...hence the absolute rejection of syncopation by the Ramones. (I'm not claiming Johnny was a racist, by the way. He was a genius with an objective and was unusually articulate about that objective. He never struck me as a hater...even though he was a Republican! JV? MQ?)

As for why white boys rejected funk (in the broadest sense), it's probably because we can't do it as well as black musicians. When musical culture was integrated, it can't have escaped notice that white musicians just could not F*CKING MOVE. Remember the famous TAMI show where James Brown did his incredible thang, only to be followed by Mick Jagger and the Stones? Now Mick isn't that bad a mover by the standards of spazzy white boys, but he ain't no James Brown. No Jackie Wilson. No white group could move, or sing, like the Temptations. No white group could move like the Jackson Five!

I think it is no accident that exposure of white kids to black music taught young white musicians a lesson: stay away from the funk...you have to be able to play to make that work...and stay the F*CK away from that dancing sh*t. Since dancing is a display of sexual prowess when young men do it solo in front of young women--and most white boys just can't dance--no young white man, musician or not, would get caught dead trying to compete with the masters: black musicians.

When white couple-oriented dancing--Foxtrot, Waltz, even Jive and Jitterbug--disappeared from the social agenda, where white control and discipline can shine on the dance floor, to be replaced by post-Twist solo freestyle "dancing", where whites just look spazzy and pathetic, dance music from whites was doomed.

Why wouldn't it be? We don't want to look bad, any more than anyone else does.

Posted by: PatrickH on November 12, 2008 10:07 AM

I fully agree with Patrick's assessment, here.

It's interesting to note the No-Wave bands from around '78 on, who did embrace the funk in their own spazzy way. I'm thinking of James Chance and the Distortions, Pere Ubu, Talking Heads. I still listen to those bands to this day. Really infectious, smart stuff. And yeah, Gang of Four is what I meant instead of Wire. For some reason, I always get those two mixed up.

I did know that Johnny Ramone was right-wing, and it's not surprising at all. I know MANY guys from back in the day who were more into the hardcore stuff who are now Republicans. It's a logical transition from the regimented hardcore scene.

Posted by: JV on November 12, 2008 11:28 AM

The Clash almost completely abandoned punk's linear and rigid style for a funkier reggae-infused style. I never really liked the Red Hot Chili Peppers, but they are maybe the ultimate attempt at fusing punk and funk, they were directly inspired by P-Funk and have performed with Clinton.

Johnny Ramone (whom I love, God Bless Him) saying outright that he wanted to create a music with nothing black in it...hence the absolute rejection of syncopation by the Ramones. (I'm not claiming Johnny was a racist, by the way. He was a genius with an objective and was unusually articulate about that objective. He never struck me as a hater...even though he was a Republican! JV? MQ?)

I've never said all Republicans are haters...and of course being a hater is sort of punk rock, isn't it? Anyway, I LOVE the Ramones and also think Johnny Ramone was brilliant...rejecting syncopation and creating raucous music that was rooted in the early Beach Boys rather than the blues was indeed brilliant. The Ramones managed to make the most truly joyful punk, that fully escaped the rancid bitterness and anger I personally find in a lot of punk.

The Ramones in certain ways revived some of the spirit of 50s rock -- which was blues-based at its heart, but was also influenced by everything from Tin Pan Alley to Broadway to light opera. The brilliance of early rock came from being a genuinely mulatto music, not, as is sometimes claimed, from being some kind of white debasement of black blues. Believing the latter leads to the aesthetic dead end of seeing rural blues as the only "authentic" music, which would cut off the rich interchanges that make for the best American music. Motown was a very sophisticated urban music that was extremely far from the Delta Blues.

BTW, in honor of Barack and George Clinton both, here's G. Clinton with Ice Cube in 1993, rapping about turning the White House black . Like most of George's post PFunk, it's basically rap, not funk, and not all that inspired (I think George was an impressario for a great mix of musicians rather than a great writer himself). But the video is hilarious.

Posted by: MQ on November 12, 2008 5:55 PM






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