Is there somewhere I can buy a dog to sniff out arguments so we could find one in the ANTI anti illegal immigrants folks. Perhap, we will have to wait for advances in nano-technology to help find those arguments.

Mechanical Eye part one: Immigrant complaints are good for site traffic. Gee, maybe because citizens have just had it with the invasion. Next, we are uncouth or unhappy. I imgine groups of uncouth and unhappy are on all sides of all issues. I know they are on both sides of this immigration debate, so do we take a census and the group with the least amount wins the argument?

As Mechanical Eye understands it illegal immigration peaked in 2004. First, if this is true, so what? And please define peak -- what was the number at the peak and what is it now? Second, since estimates range from 12 million to 30 million illegals what Mechanical understands of the problem seems a bit humorous. The pro illegal side itself says we don't know who or where these people are, except they're in the shadows.
The number is huge by all accounts. Or is it not? Come out and say somethng, Mechanical. Don't try and hook us up to Fox news/ nancy grace dead coed wagon, because that wagon is much better suited for hauling your racism arguments. And if you're going to say Lou Dobbs is inflating the problem well tell us how, or tell us how small the problem actually is. Make a point, change our minds.

So you find us pathetic, Mechanical. Will you send your child to LA Unified School District? Will you move into the neighbrhoods in my area that used to be pleasant places and are now just gang infested sores? Is the adding of a second language just my imagination? As for welfare stories, when welfare reform was being done there was an attempt to eliminate some aid to immigrants, opponents said this would lead to starvation. Are you saying immigrnats are above taking aid. Tell us what commonly held proposition in these commmunites is against taking govt. handouts? And are the Calif. state statistcs on the academic performance of these kids wrong? If they are correct, does that mean anything to the future?

You've been sitting in the wrong position too long, Mechanical. Your brain has fallen asleep. Get up; shake it off. Make a substantive argument, or even just take your own statements to the next level. Even getting to the first rung of the ladder would, at least, get you off the floor.

Posted by: sN on November 18, 2007 8:43 PM

Okay, despite knowing better, I'll bite.
I agree that something must be done about rampant illegal immigration.

I also agree that the tenor of the debate here on the subject is about as odious, unproductive and offensive (to tasteful and tactful readers) as it could possibly be, complete with a host of posters that use it as a bully pulpit.

If we were to juxtapose the discussions on aesthetics here to the ones on immigration, a clear pattern emerges.

We can do better than this, people.

Posted by: Spike Gomes on November 18, 2007 11:53 PM

Hey, If you can't call people racist, tell them that they are crude and unfeeling.

What about what we the citizens want?

In the space of about 2-3 years, this issue has gone from debateable and off the front burner to front and center and debate over.

We want to end illegal invasion and deport--that's what the overwhelming majority want. And the conviction only increases with time.

Posted by: BIOH on November 19, 2007 10:54 AM

Does the truth have to be nice?

Mr. Gomes wants us to be nice. I think he'd prefer that we were Boy Scouts. Oh, wait, the left is busy trying to destroy that organization.

The problem is we know your definition of nice is just having us put on the blindfolds and smile until the firing sqaud gets here. Hey, it is a fight for culture; we don't want to be nice. We know the rules are always put on us but never on the other side. Never on the other side. Please, tell me the rules that the other side is going to play by. Here would be a nice start: rule one, the laws of the United States.

Posted by: sN on November 19, 2007 1:23 PM

It's good to know I can always count on BIOH and sN to be personally insulting and/or miss my point entirely.

Well, when it comes to the immigration debates, I'm outta here. Brings something to mind about pigs, mud and wrestling. Tis a pity really, as the regulars here have good stuff to contribute on it.

Posted by: Spike Gomes on November 19, 2007 2:21 PM

Bravo, Spike, take a victory lap on your white horse, but make sure mommy has a tight grip on the reins, in case the ride gets rough.

If you are going to read me out of polite company then do me a favor and give me 3 or 4 things that I said that should not be allowed. Have that decency. Tell me what I said that should not be allowed? You're the decent guy, right? You can extend me that decency -- before you banish me? Put something behind your pronouncements. But that would require you to say something and if you actually say something it can be debated.

And by the way, the Blowhard commenters are good except for sN and BIOH is more fit for a junior high. But, I enjoy a good insult, just make sure there is some meat on that bone when you stick it in my eye.
Also could you tell me is it not allowed in your world to say that Mexcians may have, just maybe have something to do with the way things are in Mexico? And therefore, if they want to come here illegally in the millions and bring their culture, it could have a bad effect.

How do I go against my opponents and their: institutional racism, covert racism, under representation, white privilege, over represented, structured racism, noose on a Halloween display racism ... and the list goes on. You're telling me to oppose this stuff without offending anyone. Can that be done effectively?
My country is on the line. Im not discussing architecture here. So understand my vigorous defense.

Posted by: sN on November 19, 2007 7:08 PM






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