Allan - As for subsidies, Moira, California is largely out of the loop. Southern cotton and rice and Midwestern corn and grain have the inside track. I was looking forward to the end of all subsidies. Farm subsidies more than technological reason drives the ethanol corn craze IMHO.

I wasn't referring to direct agricultural subsidies (though I would like to see them disappear, too). If, as seems to be the case, the public is subsidizing "cheap" labor in the form of educational and medical costs, high housing costs, degraded infrastructure, etc., then California is most certainly not "out of the loop". Do you believe that there is negligible "socialized cost" (I believe that is the standard term) to recent high-volume immigration into California?

Also Moira, I do not fear Mexican prosperity. In fact, it would be a welcome relief. Several processors have tried tomato factories in Mexico. A short season, bugs and tropical diseases make the crop risky. Poor farm practices with massive uncontrolled pesticide use make the products questionble at best.

I don't see your point here. Imitating the California ag industry is Mexico's only ticket to prosperity? Mexicans can't be producers in anything but agriculture? Whatever, that's neither here nor there. The point is that California ag would not have a ready supply of cheap labor if Mexico wasn't politically dysfunctional and could provide opportunities for its citizens. So it's hard to see how a prosperous Mexico could be a "welcome relief" (strictly in terms of economic self-interest, that is) to someone who is arguing that his business is absolutely dependent on a continued inflow of cheap Mexican labor.

You have claimed, flatly, "no Mexicans, no business". So, if the rest of the citizenry decided that the social costs of massive immigration had become too high, what would you do? Agricultural businesses would have to adjust, or fail, just like any other businesses. People who have seen their quality of life degraded by uncontrolled immigration are going to respond very skeptically to claims that we're all going to starve to death or be poisoned by foreign produce if we don't allow a huge chunk of the population of Mexico (and points south) to move here. (We've been pretty much living on Canadian, not Californian, peppers and tomatoes while we wait for our own garden to yield its fruits. Go figure. I envision vast greenhouses across the tundra.)

I readily admit that here are all sorts of inequities in our farm sector regionally and nationally. However, illegal immigrants lowering wages in the construction, food service, and hospitality trades are a far larger problem in my mind.

Quite possibly, though you must admit yours is not a disinterested opinion. I am not, as a matter of fact, opposed in principle to any migrant agricultural program. But ag (or any other illegal immigrant loving industry) isn't gaining credibility with the public by claiming first that immigrants in their hundreds of thousands, then in their millions, and now in their tens of millions *just aren't enough*. (Gee, where'd they all go?) Look, Allan, if this shamnesty passes, and the projected 30, 40, 50 million new immigrants were to pour in over the next few decades, to do "the work that Americans won't do", growers would *still* be whining about their rotting peaches. Though I think the public will have told them to go pound sand long before that date. Can no longer compete without turning the U.S. into Mexico? Fail or find a better way of running your business.

I've been at this for over 40 years and many of the supervisors in my organization are former farm workers and the children of migrants who send their children to college and who are wonderful caring intelligent friends and citizens.

So? What does this have to do with the price of melamine in China?

Posted by: Moira Breen on June 6, 2007 3:42 PM

Dear Michael,

Michael, I believe that some crops like orchards require highly skilled workers. Americans could be trained to do the work, but I don't think they will. I am one of the few who chose to work 70-80 hours per week in the heat. I was also not afraid of heavy labor.

I do not think that many kids today will follow in my footsteps. My daughter, using more good sense than her father, became a chartered financial analyst.

Sorry Moira, I feel like you are casting me as biased because as you say it is "in my economic self-interest." My tomato crop uses fewer immigrants than most crops. Tomato fields are laser leveled and prepared by machines guided by global satellite. There may or may not even be a driver. The satellite makes sure that the drip irrigation isn't disturbed. Transplants, often from Mexico, get a jump on weeds. The harvester crews are, for the most part, small and local. Many work all winter maintaining the equipment. The processing plants are all outside cities because they require few workers. I visited one several years ago that was operating day and night seven days a week with a crew of 37 including administration and maintenance. The guy who took me around introduced me to the two local housewives who sat on opposite sides of the control panel that ran the incoming and processing lines. No immigrants, no low wage slaves. Other crops that are not so industrialized will do something else.

I will retire in a few years if the industry doesn't decide that it doesn't need inspection and lay us all off. If they do, I will work as a painter and designer; that is my personal goal anyway.

The big influx of immigrants here is for construction and other trades. They have broken the unions and lowered wages and benefits. I would appreciate the business people who use them to be fined and jailed. Migrants are commonly used in meat processing plants. Both slaughter houses in my town closed and reopened in the Midwest and South; they run non-union with illegal workers. The people around here who were laid off were not amused.

Labor intensive crops will fail without skilled farm labor.

Posted by: Allan on June 6, 2007 6:15 PM

The big influx of immigrants here is for construction and other trades.

Yes, let's not forget who's rebuilding New Orleans as well as pitching in on the 'pubs newest fence across the border...

Posted by: Upstate Guy on June 7, 2007 2:17 PM






Post a comment

Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember your info?