Michael Blowhard writes:

Dear Blowhards --

After its strong showing in our recent "Your Favorite Movies from the Past 25 Years" poll, I figured the time had come to catch up with "Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle." Enjoyed it! It's a remarkably sweet-natured entry in the raunchy-teen-boy / road-comedy genre, made fresher than most by its ethnic element.

Harold and Kumar are both Asian-American -- a group that hasn't been as prominent as you might hope in American movies and entertainments. Harold is a Korean-American grind, chained to his laptop and anxious unto complete terror around girls; Kumar is a smooth, sly Indian-American dude, in full slacker rebellion against his family's success-and-profession expectations. Both have some deadlines that need attending-to, and both have some personal issues that demand facing. A few tokes, a case of the munchies, and the boys' adventures are underway.

Watching the film left me with one observation and two questions. The observation: Did anyone else notice how the film portrays white Americans? Namely as sometimes sexily-attractive, definitely spoiled, often gross, and deeply committed to the process of throwing away their patrimony. It makes a lot of sense that that's how the children of immigrants might see us vanilla folks, doesn't it?

My first question is simply: Are the Asian-American archetypes and predicaments that the film traffics in true to life? I'm sadly deficient in Korean-American and Indian-American young-guy friends, and I'm a little wary of taking the film as authoritative on the topic. Its creative team -- Leiner, Hurwitz, Schlossberg -- is notably short on Asian-seeming names. Can any visitors with some experience of Asian-American life let me know their opinion of the truth-content (comic exaggeration allowed for, of course) of the movie?

My second question is: Was I the only viewer to be struck by just what good boys these two kids are? They may be raunchy screw-ups, they may have some acting-out they need to do, they may find some temptations all-too-hard to resist. But they're nothing if not good-hearted, nice kids, asking for little more than to be allowed to do well and have a pretty good time. As a fan of comedies, I'm not sure whether I found this authority-accepting thing slightly disappointing or refreshing and invigorating.

Best,

Michael

UPDATE: Thanks to visitor Not Gandhi, who left this very interesting and helpful comment:

I'm East Asian (I prefer the term Oriental) and teach a fair number of top notch Asian kids in my classes. I would say that the film (taking into account exaggerations) gives a fair view of many of the central preoccupations of middle-class Asian-Americans, especially in the burbs. There's the tension between the need to do well in school and the fear of not being cool. There's dealing with the pressure from parents to go to the top 10 universities while fighting against the first generation immigrant view that anything other than doctor, lawyer, or Google engineer are not worthy careers.

At the same time, I notice that even the "slacker" Asian-Americans who are into art, listen to rap, like sports and hate math accept the core views of the tribe. It's amusing that many of these kids who reject the careerism of their high-SAT, Princeton-Stanford going co-ethnics, still think that the average white and black kids in their high schools are lazy retards, who only think about parties and sports. At the same time, they yearn for the "dynamism" and lack of inhibitions that they associate with the mainstream American culture. They desperately want to be "normal" but also to make Mom and Dad proud.

As for the movie, I figure that the Jewish American writers understand Asian-Ams pretty well. Remember that the US writer for "Eat Drink Man Woman" finally "got" the Chinese thing when he started writing the movie as if it were a Jewish comedy [Watch the DVD extras on that Ang Lee classic].

Michael, it didn't strike you how viciously the movie portrayed whites?

Posted by: sj on November 9, 2006 5:56 AM

I'm East Asian (I prefer the term Oriental) and teach a fair number of top notch Asian kids in my classes. I would say that the film (taking into account exaggerations) gives a fair view of many of the central preoccupations of middle-class Asian-Americans, especially in the burbs. There's the tension between the need to do well in school and the fear of not being cool. There's dealing with the pressure from parents to go to the top 10 universities while fighting against the first generation immigrant view that anything other than doctor, lawyer, or Google engineer are not worthy careers. At the same time, I notice that even the "slacker" Asian-Americans who are into art, listen to rap, like sports and hate math accept the core views of the tribe. It's amusing that many of these kids who reject the careerism of their high-SAT, Princeton-Stanford going co-ethnics, still think that the average white and black kids in their high schools are lazy retards, who only think about parties and sports. At the same time, they yearn for the "dynamism" and lack of inhibitions that they associate with the mainstream American culture. They desperately want to be "normal" but also to make Mom and Dad proud.

As for the movie, I figure that the Jewish American writers understand Asian-Ams pretty well. Remember that the US writer for Eat-Drink-Man-Woman finally "got" the Chinese thing when he started writing the movie as if it were a Jewish comedy [Watch the DVD extras on that Ang Lee classic].

Posted by: Not Gandhi on November 9, 2006 10:01 AM

SJ -- I found the movie's portrayal of whites pretty funny, actually. It's a satire, it's intended not to convey an objective general truth but to show how the whites look to the Asian-Am kids, and hey a lot of us are slobs who don't give a shit about anything but carrying on like idiots on TV ads. (That strikes me too, vanilla as I am.) But I'm a big proponent of ethnic humor generally, at least so long as it isn't vicious and everyone gets to participate. I often have a great time watching black standup comics portray white people, for instance. Did the movies portrayal of whites bug you? It's an interesting question, how far can one group go in satirizing another, before it becomes objectionable. I wonder if there are any firm lines that can be drawn.

NG -- Many thanks for tuning me in, it's a treat to get this kind of info from someone with real experience. I love the term "Oriental" -- it's got a lot more poetry than the very neutral "Asian." Too bad it's so unacceptable these days. Does "Oriental" when used include such Asians as Indians and Pakistanis? Hmm. I wonder if people will ever loosen up again about using Oriental. It seems to be OK once again to call young females "girls," so maybe there's hope. That's a good point too about the film's Jewish creators. A Chinese-American friend of mine (my age, has been very successful after a slacker youth) once told me that the Chinese consider themselves the Jews of Asia: hard-working, successful, smart, career-driven, guilt-ridden, parent-nagged, etc etc. Amusingly, I've since heard people from other Asian-Am groups describe themselves as "the Jews of Asia" too. I wonder how college-age Asian-Am kids reacted to the movie, whether any of them took offence. It probably came as a relief. I remember seeing Margaret Cho do standup once as part of a big 90% Asian-Am audience. She wasn't all that funny, IMHO, but people roared anyway, and the sense of thrilled relief in the room could have been cut with a knife -- I guess Asian-Am kids often feel they don't get to cut loose and act wild (let alone enjoy exaggerated versions of their own experiences) very often. There's a big potential audience there for showbiz people to service! Surprising there aren't more Asian-Am-themed TV series, for instance. But maybe one of the challenges is that Asian-Ams aren't exactly super-numerous in showbiz. Maybe next generation.

Oops, time for me to get back to being a party-hearty retard!

Posted by: Michael Blowhard on November 9, 2006 10:58 AM

This book, "How I Became a Black Man and Other Metamorphoses," by a middle class young Asian man--and a Texan, at that!--offers an interesting perspective.

http://tinyurl.com/yftkzt

Posted by: beloml on November 9, 2006 1:32 PM

I think that small town or non-middleclass white Americans who make it to college often have similiar impressions of their more privileged classmates. I was middle-class small-town, but I knew a lot of people who did pretty well given very limited options, and it took me awhile to realize that many of my upper-middle class (or above) friends had never known anyone who didn't have their chances in life, and they didn't realize that a lot of people get one and only one chance.

Posted by: John Emerson on November 9, 2006 3:07 PM

I'm sadly deficient in Korean-American and Indian-American young-guy friends

Ahhh, whatchoo talkin' about willis?? Aren't we friends? :)

Re: portrayal of white gentile males in the movie, no doubt it was relentlessly negative. Southern hicks, evil frat boys, tweaked out Patrick Neil Harris, and dumb/lazy corporate overlords. The white women were portrayed as hot sluts. For the average Asian American, the first part ("hot") is reality and the second part ("slut") is fantasy.

That said, their buddies were white (Jewish though), and I actually don't think that most of the audience got the message that the filmmakers might have intended to send by making the only good white guys Jewish.

Also, one is a bit conflicted about this -- yes, the portrayal of whites was negative, cartoonishly so. But the portrayal of Asian American males on screen, when not invisible, is even MORE negative. South Asians have been Apu or terrorists, East Asians have been martial artists or (sometimes) science nerds. And they never get the girl. Even in Romeo Must Die, Jet Li just gets a hug from Aaliyah (who towers over him). It really does kinda suck.

The problem really boils down to a media-friendly definition of Asian American identity that does not involve either accepting whites as the "master" (i.e. fitting in to the extent of repudiating/mocking others of your ethnic group) ...or, conversely, engaging in rejectionism (Indian/Korean only enclaves) and contempt ("whites are dumb").

I think that on a day to day basis, individual interactions manage to square this circle. But things get distorted when they get put on the big screen, even more so when the writers intend to distort things.

See also this post:

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/001809.html

This is the point that Secret Asian Man is making...what's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander. If blacks can have a fictional TV life in which they're overrepresented as competent doctors relative to real life, can't Asian Americans have a fictional TV life in which they get the girl?...

The answer, of course, is no ...as long as Asians take a reactive rather than proactive approach to media bias. Rather than imitating the angry pleadings for charity of an Asian Sharpton, Asian Americans need to look to the self-reliance of the Jewish example, as documented in Gabler's Hollywoodism...

Until Asians enter media to the extent that the Jews have, they will not be able to shape their media portrayal.

That is sort of happening now, w/ M. Night Shyamalan/Bollywood on the one hand and Crouching Tiger/Hero/etc. on the other.

Posted by: gc on November 9, 2006 4:27 PM

I wonder how college-age Asian-Am kids reacted to the movie, whether any of them took offence.

Not left wing enough for some of them...

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/000200.html

Posted by: gc on November 9, 2006 4:32 PM

Michael - Dude, "Harold and Kumar" rule! However, I wouldn't take it as saying anything significant about Asian Americans. It ain't a documentary.

By the way, if you like "Harold and Kumar," you should also check out 2004's "Napolean Dynamite" and of course the 1993 classic "Dazed and Confused," and revisit the slacker mothership, "Fast Times at Ridgemont High."

As a related aside, it might be fun to take a peek at tonight's "Survivor: Cook Islands." Korean American Yul is kicking butt and taking names, while coming off as American as apple pie. And apparently, a lot of women find him to be a stud muffin of epic proportions.

Posted by: Alec on November 9, 2006 4:41 PM

Most Asians think that the whiny activism and self-righteous offendedness of the sepiamutiny/"how i became a black man" types are deeply, deeply white.

Posted by: secret asian man on November 9, 2006 11:13 PM

Not all the whites are portrayed as assholes. Harold & Kumar's neighbours, Goldstein & Rosenberg, are portrayed as Harold & Kumar's mirror image (an exception that proves the rule, one may say).

Posted by: Danny on November 10, 2006 12:46 AM

I realy liked H's and K's characters and yet found the movie's excessively nasty portrayal of white Americans really over the top. I'm fine with frat boy / rich kid whites being mocked because there is a lot to mock, especially if you're a struggling / small town white student.

And that's unfortunate. It would have been great to see a comedy that took (privileged) whites' spoiled-brat behavior to task, a theme that Michael perceptively notices. But the feeling I got from the movie is that white is white is white. (Except, of course, Goldstein and Rosenberg)

What was the point of the leperous tow truck driver bit? (if I remember his skin afflictin correctly). Or that horribly mean-spirited speech they gave to the white (working-class no doubt) cop - something about how he wasn't smart enough to go to college.

Or the bit about white hoodloms in Newark, NJ. Was that meant to be a satire of PC? Somehow, I don't think it was. And the only black character in the movie resembles some soviet-era political prisoner rather than someone you'd find in a US jail.

Finally on Michael's point about enjoying ethnic humor. I like it as much as you do. So long as there is recipricocity. It's great that black comedians riff on whites. But do you know any white comedians that riff on blacks? No, white comedians riff on rednecks.

I wonder how much of the movie was about Asian American angst, etc., and how much of it was the same old Hollywood narrative with an Asian twist.

Posted by: sj on November 10, 2006 6:17 AM

Continuing with my bad habit of posting somewhat off-topic comments, the general theme of slacker hit a funny-bone nerve:

last night, I popped in The Big Lebowski for another go-round. I laughed till my gut hurt, not only for the absurdist hilarity but mainly for every moment Jeff Bridges is on-screen. His knowing-cluelessness is a towering acting achievement. Like when Sam Elliot's cowboy character requests that the Dude not use so much profanity, the Dudester replies with not an ounce of irony, "What the f...k are you talking about?"

Posted by: Tim B. on November 10, 2006 9:56 AM

Michael & Not Ghandi,
I really appreciate your dialogue here on the term Oriental. I have embarassed myself on many occassions with my alleged mis-use of that word. Now, to add to further confusion, it seems some A-A prefer Oriental.
Yipes.
I know I cause some folks grief on this topic. Born in Croatia, lived in states the majority of my life. Am I Croatian-American? No, I don't see myself as that. I am an American, both through citizenship and through living here most of my life.
How can I tell I'm an American? When I visit the relatives and friends back in the old country, that's what they call me. Amerikanac. I figure if that's the way they see me, why should I be calling myself anything else here. Yes, I have A Croatian birthplace, blood, etc. etc., but I'm basically your typical un-hyphenated American.
A question to all of you foreign born readers of 2 Blowhards, when you go back to visit your place of birth, do you label yourself as an Asian-American, German-American, Hispanic-American?
No?
Didn't think so.

Posted by: DarkoV on November 10, 2006 10:23 AM

The East Asian kids: America's new hope.

Posted by: ricpic on November 10, 2006 10:23 AM

Picking up on a comment above, Fast Times at Ridgemont High is IMO one of the best post-WWII American comedies. Sweet, charming, sharp, bold, and honest, one of the best movies ever made about being young in suburban America.

Posted by: MQ on November 10, 2006 3:09 PM

When I was in Taiwan, my girlfriend broke up with her Chinese boyfriend for me. She was 5' and he was 6', and tall people scared her.

True story.

Posted by: John Emerson on November 10, 2006 7:16 PM

This Goldstein & Rosenberg thing is making me laugh. Jews have a rather amusing habit of adopting ethnic minorities as mascots or little brothers or some such. They did it with black people for several decades until it became obvious that black people - irascible as they are - generally hate them. I wondered where it would go from there. Are they adopting Asians now? It seems like they are.

Posted by: Brian on November 11, 2006 12:38 PM

Mascots, feh. Jewish men are marrying Asian women by the thousands, the progeny of which will probably represent the American cultural elite around 2030.

Posted by: James M on November 13, 2006 7:01 PM






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