Michael – re: It was all about costs, resources, benefits, etc. Important stuff, of course. But so is the "what we want" question. I find it downright weird that Americans are so prone to avoid it…

You mix two points here. Issues about immigration are important. On the other hand, “preference-and-aesthetics” is just a fancy word for whim. Americans are not avoiding this question. Most of us understand that it is simply wrong to make individual whim into national policy if there is no significant public policy issue. Hell, there may even be a Federalist Paper on this, and the notion of mindless mob rule comes to mind. Your musings here are similar to someone saying, “wouldn’t it be great if we passed a law mandating that every house in America be painted eggshell white.”

Limits on population is not a “what we want question.” It’s a “what you want” question without traction or persuasiveness, or rational argument. It’s a fun rant, but not meaningful. Somehow, the idea of 300 million or more people gives you the heebie jeebies. But no matter how I look at it, no matter how often I read your posts on this, I just can’t get exited about it. I also note that whenever this issue comes up, there are often a scad of posts offering different --- and totally incompatible --- alternative whims and preferences relating to the US population. And no one has ever offered a solution to rising population which would not either collapse the economy or invite tyrannical intrusion into people’s private lives.

Consider how the world has changed and yet still rolls along. Recently I was reading about the closing of Tower Records stores, where I spent a great deal of my young adulthood learning about and arguing about music. There have also been a number of articles about the fifth anniversary of the iPod. In subtle, but definite ways, these changes mark a huge evolution in popular culture. In the late 50s and early 60s, the rise of AM radio and portable transistor radios, along with the emergence of teenage baby boomers with a good amount of spendable income, saw the rise of a distinct pop culture. Today, commentators have noted that the Los Angeles radio market has eliminated all country music stations because one market segment greatly prefers pop, rap and Spanish language radio, while another larger market segment has abandoned radio altogether in favor of iPods, satellite radio and other music sources. And the people who still want to listen to country music listen to non-LA stations, stations on the Internet or collect CDs and MP3s.

The point here is that not only do people find ways to satisfy their preferences without intruding on others, but new preferences and options are created which no one previously considered. The rising population offers similar challenges and opportunities.

Glen – There is an interesting wrinkle to Latino immigration which few are talking about, and which is not easy to speculate about with respect to its future outcome. Because of the sheer numbers of Mexicans and Latin Americans coming over here, the proximity of Mexico, and the ease with which technology and speedy travel allows people to retain their cultural connections, we are seeing the rise of Latino immigrants who want to work here, but who do not see any reason to become Americans or to assimilate. I am not sure that we have seen this before on a large scale with other immigrants to the U.S. And even though he is far on the fringe, the Green Party candidate for governor openly asserts that borders do not apply to “indigenous peoples.” Also, there are a number of Latino California politicians who openly announce their allegiance to fellow Latinos without regard to citizenship or residency status, and who see no problem with raising taxes on citizens in order to provide services to non-citizens.

In fact, one thing that I find interesting, and a major ideological weakness, is that many libertarians and socialists find an odd congruence in their denial of the importance of borders or national identity. The problem is that most people don’t think this way.

I am not suggesting that all Latinos are seriously considering “La reconquista.” But some open-border conservatives have this delusion that they can control illegal immigrants by slotting them into “guest worker programs,” and that when those jobs are completed, the workers will magically return home, or simply come into the country and immediately look for better paying jobs. And some open-border liberals see illegal immigrants as “the poor and oppressed,” who just yearn to become Americans and Democratic Party voters. Both of these groups love to argue with each other over their own view of the world, and never take a minute to ask this new group of immigrants what they want, or pay attention to the conversations about resurgent Latino nationalism that regularly occur on Spanish language radio and TV stations.

Posted by: Alec on October 27, 2006 3:43 PM