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« Elsewhere | Main | Singers and Songwriters »

August 04, 2006

That Mel Thing

Michael Blowhard writes:

Dear Blowhards --

What to make of Mel's drunken anti-Semitic spoutings? For one very basic thing: Are we justified in assuming that what people say when smashed always represents their real views? For another: Do his remarks provide definitive proof for those who accused "The Passion of the Christ" of anti-Semitism? More generally: How much are we entitled to read into the art what we think we know about the artist?

I'm not generally of the "alcohol-fueled ravings reveal the Real Truth about a person" school, are you? A nice passage from Laurence Auster:

Alcohol not only releases the unattractive and disorderly sides of ourselves that we normally keep in check, it may introduce aggressive and belligerent impulses that we normally don't feel at all. To conclude that what a person says while in a state of extreme intoxication when his faculty of self-control has been suspended is what the person "really" believes is to cancel him out as a moral being. Judgment is part of what makes us human. It is wrong to judge a person for what he says when his judgment has been removed.

I haven't watched "The Passion of the Christ" and may never do so (the story doesn't speak to me); and my main reaction to the brouhaha has been to think, "Wow, can you come up with many movie stars as handsome as Mel who have lost their looks as young as he has? Is that what booze can do?" So my views aren't to be paid attention to. Rod Dreher's ruminations, though, are well worth a wrestle: here, here, here, here, here, and here. Rod's visitors add a lot to the discussion too.

Best,

Michael

UPDATE: Anne Thompson recalls meeting Gibson a few times.

posted by Michael at August 4, 2006




Comments

I don't really wonder about any of these things.

What I wonder is when a human, under the scrutiny of our truly noxious press, will respond to accusations of some sort of bigotry by responding: "Go fuck yourself."

If the sanctimonious and brain dead agent of the press is not satisfied with that response, I look forward to the day when that human drags such agent of the press out to the woodshed and beats the living hell out of him/her. What happened to smashing in the faces of people who ask stupid questions? There's a lot to be said for it.

You know, I don't give a damn whether Mel Gibson is a drunk or a bigot. I kind of hope he's a drunk. There are too many sober assholes in this world. The daily discussion of bigots and bigotry is truly a wretched stain upon the universe. People involved in the great bigot hunt rank morally somewhere beneath pedophiles and serial killers.

I was hoping that Gibson wouldn't apologize and that he would break the jaw of the next person who suggested he should.

Anybody want a drink?

Posted by: Shouting Thomas on August 4, 2006 12:48 PM



If someone only beat his wife when he was drunk, do we say he's not really a wife-beater because he was out-of-control when he did it and he either doesn't normally feel those impulses or suppresses them? Is it somehow different for speech acts? If he was so out-of-control that it in no way reflects on the kind of person he is deep down, then isn't it just dumb luck and not any kind of virtue or restraint on his part that it was only speech and not violence?

Posted by: Joshua Macy on August 4, 2006 1:12 PM



I'm kinda for the freedom of speech thing, and our right in this country to be a jackass if we want to be. So I'd probably, if I cared enough, not be on the side of any screamers (whose motives I'd question)who want to make some big deal anti-somebody case out of this.

Posted by: susan on August 4, 2006 1:14 PM



I am curious, and serious, if he had something to the effect of "Are you a Scientologist?!?!", would anyone care? We would probably make jokes about Tom Cruise and book Mel for an appearance on the Tonight Show.

Or, what if he said, "Are you a Muslim?!?!" (suppose the guy was Arabic looking), the reaction would be bad, but no as bad as the one he made. I am guessing.

We like to create societal hierarchies of victims. Blacks are at the top. Jews and maybe women are next. Hispanics below them. It gets a little muddy after that. White Men are at the bottom.

But we have also grown sick of much of this Victimology. I think that many now try to reserve their outrage for obvious victims, say, women sold into sexual slavery.

Like Steve Sailer has said about similar happenings in the past, this Mel Gibson moment simply provides an opportunity for some to display Moral Superiority over others... "Well, I NEVER!!!!"

Who cares.

You show me the people who are making actual progress in places like Detroit, Camden, Gary, IN and other places like that, and I will show you people who are truly morally superior.

Posted by: Ian Lewis on August 4, 2006 1:42 PM



Best somewhat pro-Mel spin I know of was from a caller to Michael Medved's show who said he was a cop and that guys stopped for DWI go through a whole bunch of emotional things (weepy, effusively apologetic, belligerent and whatnot). One of the standard reactions is going after the cop personally, for what he looks like or whatever. The caller said he was bald, and he gets a lot of comments about baldness. So the thought was that one of the cops looked Jewish and Gibson went after him for that ("Are you a Jew?"). That would at least explain why the topic of Jews came up at all, and somewhat puts the incident in the "drunk picks fight" rather than "raving anti-semite" category.

Posted by: elmore on August 4, 2006 1:55 PM



What to make of Mel's drunken anti-Semitic spoutings?

That he doesn't like Jews.


Are we justified in assuming that what people say when smashed always represents their real views?

Always, no. In this case, probably.


Do his remarks provide definitive proof for those who accused "The Passion of the Christ" of anti-Semitism?

I don't know. Probably not, unless you interpret a movie in light of the producer/director's intentions, in which case, probably so. But I didn't see the movie.

Posted by: Jonathan on August 4, 2006 2:06 PM



It's easy to say that Gibson's tirade was just drunked babbling, except for the fact that he really wasn't intoxicated at the time. His blood-alcohol level was measured at 0.12%, which until a couple decades ago would not have constituted driving while intoxicated or impaired. In most states the legal limit was 0.15%, until pressure by MADD and other groups led states to reduce the limit to 0.08%. Being at 0.12% should not have affected Gibson's judgment to much of an extent, especially as he's used to heavy drinking.

Posted by: Peter on August 4, 2006 2:10 PM



This is no way excusing or condoning his behavior while drunk, but another thing that happens when someone's drunk and spouting off is they tend towards hyperbole and grand over-statement.

For instance, a drunk comes home and his wife confronts him about it, the kids cry, so he might be libel to yell, "You all hate me!" That may be a statement on how he feels at the moment, but I doubt it expresses anything close to the truth, or how he actually feels about it when sober.

At the time Mel was picked up, Israel had started bombing Lebanon, so the statement in question (and I paraphrase) "Jews start all the wars!" (or something to that effect) might have merely been anguish that bombs where dropping somewhere else now, or anger at Israel for those recent actions and not a blanket condemnation of Jews like it sounded.

Then again it may have been. Who knows except Mel?

Posted by: Yahmdallah on August 4, 2006 2:34 PM



Peter makes an excellent point. I was surprised his blood/alchohol level was so low. .12 is nothing, really, although he shouldn't have been driving. It definitely isn't high enough to be completely out of your head raving.

Gibson has a history of making inappropriate comments towards gays, and his attitude towards Jews has been suspect for awhile. I'm sure having a dad who is a very famous and rabid Holocaust denier could not have been easy. I'd say Mel is rather conflicted on the subject. He's obviously been able to function quite well within an industry that is basically controlled by Jewish people, so his recent ranting probably does not reflect his day- to day attitude. Still, it was a stupid thing to say.

Posted by: the patriarch on August 4, 2006 2:40 PM



Well, my ex had a severe drinking and drug problem - to the point he was asked (well, told) to leave his job while we were still together (not telling tales, this is all out in the open).

I dunno. Anyone else lived with an alcoholic? Anyone else go through:

1. Denial they were drinking.
2. Shock and realization they were drinking.
3. I am so going to support you in everything and come to meetings with you.
4. Uh, I said I was supporting you.
5. I *am* supporting you. I am. Literally (where does my paycheck go, huh?)
6. Damn, maybe I should start drinking.
7. Okay, you know what? You love someone else best, and it's the damn demon drink, so you need to work it out yourself. Sorry.

*Towards the end of the roller-coaster I felt the drinking him and the non-drinking him were so entwined and so rooted together, that yeah it was the real him sober and the real him drunk.

Sad disease, really.

Posted by: MD on August 4, 2006 5:52 PM



So Mel Gibson doesn't like Jews, so what?
How many Blacks don't like Whites? How many Sunnis don't like Shia's and how may Baptists hate Catholics? Big deal. I always thought in a Democracy you were allowed to have your opinions and prejudices as long as you stayed within the law. I for one do feel that when a man is drunk, he reveals the "true beauty within".
I think the reason Mel’s outburst was newsworthy was because he is a celebrity and it was politically incorrect.
You see, Mel had bad thoughts.
Mel’s ridicule and censure in the press is designed to "punish" him for his prejudices. The press has changed its role from a reporter of the facts to become the enforcer of "right thinking". They are our modern Thought police. I am haunted by the similarities between Mel’s act of contrition and Winston Smiths' in 1984. Not only does our modern society want us to obey the laws in deed but in mind. Welcome to the world of secular theocracy.

Posted by: The Social Pathologist on August 4, 2006 6:50 PM



"Wow, can you come up with many movie stars as handsome as Mel who have lost their looks as young as he has? Is that what booze can do

I have always been curious about this - he seemed to age very quickly in his late 30s George Clooney for example, always looked mature, but not 'ravaged' by time...could be that Australian out in the sun thing as much as alcohol thought.

As for the comments- they were crude and his behavior is pretty sad- especially for a 50 year old...but as others have pointed out...if he said those things about muslims, would it have even been in the news?

Oh and another thing....look at all the nasty things that groups like ADL said about Mel's religion or alleged conservatives like Jonah Goldberg about the passion 'a homoerotic snuff film'.....and they did it sober. I am not saying Gibson's comments are right - but there seems to be no comment on the incredible hostility Mel endored from 'the jewish community'

Posted by: a reader on August 4, 2006 9:46 PM



Notice how the press had a field day(s) with this non-issue of someone not liking some group of people, while Fidel Castro, who is responsible for killing tens of thousands, stripping away human rights, impoverishing millions for decades, and otherwise ruining the lives of people on a day to day basis, was never taken to task by the marxist press as he lay near death. Where is the condemnation? What about condemning Mugabe? Why isn't this a day to day story, and "death watch", if you will?

Someday you liberals will finally wake up and realize that the things you say you care about most are the things you are working feverishly to destroy. Like free speech, for example. I guess Mel Gibson is guilty of Thought Crime. He hates sosmebody. Let's lock him up. Then let's find excuses for those other poor victims who kill, rape, and maim. Real pieces of work, you guys are.

Posted by: s on August 4, 2006 11:52 PM



" I always thought in a Democracy you were allowed to have your opinions and prejudices as long as you stayed within the law."

You are allowed to say anything you want, and others are equally allowed to comment on what you say.

I was going to stay away from the whole Mel Gibson fracas, becaues, quite frankly, I don't think there's there's nearly enough importance to the incident to justify all the commentary. Oh well, now I've joined it.

Mel Gibson holds bigoted and erroneous beliefs about Jews, and his views were inadvertantly exposed for all the world to see.

That's the beginning and end of it as far as I can see.

Posted by: Peter L. Winkler on August 5, 2006 2:07 AM



No one has mentioned the I-word, here or anywhere else. Bloody hell, Mel is a Mick, and they can say peculiar things when sober, let alone with a pint or two or thirteen in their bellies. (Remember Alec Baldwin?)

Has anyone else noticed that in almost any public arena (e.g. entertainment, politics, journalism) with a high representation of Jews, there is to be found immediately below them a contingent of ambitious Irishmen itching to burst through this glass ceiling? This isn't "hatred", it is normal resentment, the way Jews themselves resent WASPs above them, blacks resent white ethnics above them, and so on up and down the food chain.

Posted by: Reg Cæsar on August 5, 2006 2:50 AM



No one has mentioned the I-word, here or anywhere else. Bloody hell, Mel is a Mick, and they can say peculiar things when sober, let alone with a pint or two or thirteen in their bellies. (Remember Alec Baldwin?)

Has anyone else noticed that in almost any public arena (e.g. entertainment, politics, journalism) with a high representation of Jews, there is to be found immediately below them a contingent of ambitious Irishmen itching to burst through this glass ceiling? This isn't "hatred", it is normal resentment, the way Jews themselves resent WASPs above them, blacks resent white ethnics above them, and so on up and down the food chain.

Posted by: Reg Csar on August 5, 2006 3:00 AM



Last time I looked it still wasn't a crime to be anti-semitic. Get over it, mainstream media.

Posted by: ricpic on August 5, 2006 10:31 AM



"a reader" wrote:

..."Oh and another thing....look at all the nasty things that groups like ADL said about Mel's religion or alleged conservatives like Jonah Goldberg about the passion 'a homoerotic snuff film'.....and they did it sober."

This is an odd sentence. What did the ADL specifically say about Mel's religion that was so nasty? And that "homoerotic snuff film" reference doesn't sound like Goldberg. Christopher Hitchens wrote about The Passion being a "religious snuff film" with homoerotic tendencies. So that's who you probably meant to attack, and while Hitchens has never positioned himself as a conservative, and there's certainly no guarantee he's sober when he writes anything, lucky for you that earnest atheist *is* Jewish on his mother's side. (Jonah Goldberg, on the other hand, despite his name has a Gentile for a mother and has never identified with the tribe.)

[a reader...]"I am not saying Gibson's comments are right - but there seems to be no comment on the incredible hostility Mel endored from 'the jewish community' "

Can you explain the difference between the jewish community and 'the jewish community' in sneer quotes? One might be inclined to view the latter community as a disturbing figment of your fevered imagination.

Posted by: Jake on August 5, 2006 10:38 AM



Is anyone reminded of this precedent?

[Elvis Costello's] success in the US was severely bruised when, during a drunken argument with Stephen Stills and Bonnie Bramlett in a Columbus, Ohio Holiday Inn hotel bar, Costello referred to James Brown as a "jive-ass nigger", then upped the ante by pronouncing Ray Charles a "blind, ignorant nigger".

Bramlett and friends had evidently been baiting Costello with derisive comments about British rock music in general and "sawed-off Limey"-type comments aimed at him in particular.

A contrite Costello apologised at a New York City press conference a few days later, claiming that he had been drunk and had been attempting to be obnoxious in order to bring the conversation to a swift conclusion, not anticipating that Bramlett would bring his comments to the press.

According to Costello, "it became necessary for me to outrage these people with about the most obnoxious and offensive remarks that I could muster". In his liner notes for the expanded version of Get Happy!!, Costello writes that some time after the incident he had declined an offer to meet Charles out of guilt and embarrassment, though Charles himself had graciously forgiven Costello ("Drunken talk isn't meant to be printed in the paper").

Words of wisdom from the late Mr. Charles there.

But the main reason I'm siding (lukewarmly) with Gibson is because of comments like this one at Anne Thompson's site, by someone calling himself "Bill Hicks":

The conservative spin doctors should come to understand a basic fact regarding Mel Gibson's situation: you are not in control of this outcome - we are. You can flood the press and internet with an apologist defense of Mr. Gibson, but his dilemma and "journey" will be over at a time and place of our choosing. We decided to not accept Mr. Gibson's first apology because it was not sufficient. In forcing him to address the Jewish community, we attained our first goal: to have Mr. Gibson meet with prominent Jewish leaders to discuss his anti-Semitism. Once this dialogue has begun, rest assured that there will be 2 more press releases from Mr. Gibson in the future. One, he will directly repudiate the comments of his anti-Semitic father, Hutton Gibson. And two, he will apologize for the virulent and deliberate anti-Semitic content of his recent passion play, "The Passion of the Christ". He will also reject the film and permanently disassociate himself from it as part of this apology. This is the path Mr. Gibson put himself on, and we have no intention of letting him stray from it. The alternative for Mr. Gibson is the end of his career. We've succeeded in forcing two apologies, and ABC's decision to drop his Holocaust project. If he chooses not to complete his penance, we'll ensure his movies do not get distributed through a series of boycotts that will make the entertainment business think twice about ever working with Mr. Gibson again.

Yikes! Gibson's guilty of dubious opinions, but his enemies are revelling in the prospect of neo-fascist thugocracy. Which side is worse? "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Tom Jefferson said that.

Posted by: Brian on August 5, 2006 11:34 AM



You guys are under a mistaken impression. Gibson is really an anti-Semitic liberal. I read that at NRO, I think. Also, Michael Moore is fat and says stuff like that all the time.

Posted by: John Emerson on August 5, 2006 12:13 PM



The whole debacle seems predicated on affirming the prejudices of people who hate Mel Gibson. I can't say I know what is inside Mel's heart, but I certainly know my own experiences of being drunk have led to saying some things I later regretted saying.

I see the idea that when someone is intoxicated their "true" self comes to the fore as some kind of neo-Freudian hogwash. Who you are day-to-day is "Who you are," not who you are for a few hours when you're not-all-there. Far be it from me to step into the power-play various groups are trying to execute here by going after Gibson, but I'd like to see a return to a little bit of privacy and discretion in our news.

Posted by: Rendition on August 5, 2006 2:27 PM



"Can you explain the difference between the jewish community and 'the jewish community' in sneer quotes? One might be inclined to view the latter community as a disturbing figment of your fevered imagination."
Wrong Jake, I put it in quotes because I don't think these views represent the Jewish community, or most Jews, any more than the AARP represents largely conservative senior citizens.

As for the ADL, they believe that Gospel is largely antisemitic - particular John. (considering parts of the Torah, and Talmud, if I were Jewish, I wouldn't be eager to throw stones in the direction of that particular glass house). In other words, what they are saying is one of the fundamental tenets of Christianity is 'evil'.

The ADL, as documented in David Limbaugh's book , it pretty anti-Christian and at the very least, given their rabid support of Israel, grossly hypocritical.

Posted by: a reader on August 5, 2006 3:20 PM



Brian: yeah, this reminded me of the Elvis Costello incident too. I don't judge him too harshly for that, since he's so incredibly talented and seemed genuinely sorry. Mel, well....he has a chance to be one of the two...

Posted by: JW on August 5, 2006 6:08 PM



A few comments on The Passion of the Mel:

Are we justified in assuming that what people say when smashed always represents their real views? – Probably not, but it doesn’t matter. Mel’s utterances damaged his reputation, hurt his family, and endangered the livelihoods of those who depend upon him for work, and noxiously offended Jews and others. As some have noted, there are some drunks who love their wives and children even as they beat them to a pulp. Even apart from his anti-Semitic rant, he has gone from looking like a cool guy to looking like an out-of-control fool. Tom Cruise’s image and box office clout was damaged in a related way for his remarks about Brooke Shields and psychiatry (and here I am talking about public reaction, not comparing Scientology to bigotry).

Do his remarks provide definitive proof for those who accused "The Passion of the Christ" of anti-Semitism? More generally: How much are we entitled to read into the art what we think we know about the artist? -- As I read stuff like this, I kept wondering where these dopes who conclusion-jump from Mel’s (or Mel’s father’s) statements to the film were when “intentional fallacy” was discussed in literature classes. The conservative talk show host Dennis Prager noted that after an advance screening of the film, he became convinced that segments of the audience were watching two different movies. Jews were watching Jews kill Jesus, while Christians were watching Christ die for humanity’s sins. I concur with this observation.

I am not even remotely religious. I see religion at best as a benign mental illness. Still, I noted that many religious Christians were profoundly affected by the movie. But I never heard anyone who was moved by the film blame Jews, or even talk about Jews or even talk much about the scenes depicting the trial of Jesus. Not from anyone. They didn’t talk about the “excessive violence” in the film. They talked about understanding and empathizing with the suffering of Jesus, about seeing the Gospels in a fresh light. They talked about how seeing Jesus suffer became real and personal for them.

And yet I understand how some can honestly see the film as anti-Semitic. It would be stupid to fail to acknowledge this, or to deny the validity of these sentiments.

On the other hand, some film and cultural critics hysterically over-reacted to the film. For them, Jesus is kind of a general cultural icon, like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, without any particular theological significance. They have a strong attachment to the image of a sissified, or hippie Jesus (as in “Jesus Christ, Superstar”), who hung out with his dudes, said some cool stuff about the masses and then split, man. “The Passion” violated this image of Jesus, and they were hurt, outraged, and felt that they had to fight back. I saved a number of film reviews in which some of the film’s harshest critics felt a need to note that they were secular, which is OK (hell, largely irrelevant), but no excuse to ignore the theological aspects of the film, or to dismiss the positive reactions or statements of the film’s audience, or to dismiss these people as heartless or irrational yahoos. It was also odd that some of these people condemned the film’s violence as excessive or sado-masochistic, but had no problem with the numerous depictions of violence in the Lord of the Ring’s trilogy. I think that some of these people are eagerly jumping onto the anti-Mel bandwagon because their need to feel vindicated greatly exceeds their attachment to any kind of intellectual honesty.

So I went to see the film. Liked that the Romans spoke Latin. They no longer seemed like effete British aristocrats (think “I, Claudius”) spouting the King’s English, but seemed much more like imperialistic thugs. The Latin and Aramaic made the film seem more immediate. I don’t know whether the subtitles accurately quoted the New Testament where appropriate, but some of it was obviously close enough that some in the audience could be seen to be reciting along silently at some particularly moving moments and passages, again I think, drawing some more into the film.

One thing more. Some claimed that Jews were deliberately depicted negatively and stereotypically. Yet those who make this claim do something ahistorical. They ignore the fact that in the film the characters who are Jesus’ followers, and those who come to his assistance at various times, are also obviously Jewish, not people who have been magically hit with a Gentile stick. They in effect have to create a distinction between Christians and Jews that is not a part of the film’s narrative in order to sustain their claim.

Posted by: Alec on August 7, 2006 7:04 AM



"a reader" wrote:

"The ADL, as documented in David Limbaugh's book, it pretty anti-Christian and at the very least, given their rabid support of Israel, grossly hypocritical."

I'm no fan of the ADL regarding most of their stances in the US, but what is it that you find "rabid" about their support for Israel?

Posted by: Jake on August 7, 2006 4:33 PM



"I'm no fan of the ADL regarding most of their stances in the US, but what is it that you find "rabid" about their support for Israel?"

Let's just say it's grossly hypocritical to demand the removal of Christmas trees from public schools and in turn demand the US support "the Jewish state" though i would disagree with both, I could respect a view that took one stance or the other but not both.

Posted by: a reader on August 8, 2006 9:14 AM



Lucky me. If my real self is me when I'm drunk, my real self is asleep, snoring in front of the TV. Not very attractive, but pretty much harmless.

Posted by: Mitch on August 8, 2006 8:53 PM






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