David, Tim -- Tch, tch: you're such bright boys, but good lord you wear such serious expressions ... Do you wrestle with similar anxieties when Twain, or Preston Sturges, or Dave Barry bitch about the antics and self-interest of the political class? And do you think such a thing simply shouldn't be done? I think it helps keep the conversation about politics healthy and fresh.

Ricpic -- Let's hear it for muddling through, which always seems to me like the best that can be reasonably hoped-for anyway. Still, do you find that how we're governed these days accurately reflects what we want? I'm often struck by how not-true that seems to be -- that how we're governed is dramatically more a reflection of how the political class wants to govern than it is of what people more generally would actually like. If I were to ask ten random passersby whether they're in favor of corporate welfare, for instance, I doubt I'd find one who's a fan. Yet the government sponsors an enormous amount of corporate welfare. Billions and billions of dollars worth! How do these things get so out of hand? I think it's partly because the governing class has got the rest of us thinking too often that the current state of affairs is something we've somehow expressed a preference for, and that in any case it's inevitable, so why worry? But we haven't expressed a preference for it, and it isn't inevitable. So why not at least crack mean jokes about it?

No one else has to, of course, but I sometimes find it helpful to think of the governing class as an industry that's selling a product ("government"), and to think of the rest of us as consumers of this product. When I do this, I'll find myself thinking, y'know, our governing class is like the Detroit auto industry in the '60s and early '70s -- they're selling expensive, lazy crap that suits their greed and convenience rather than our preferences. Which is where I think Tim's argument falls down -- if the choice is between a crap Ford and crap Plymouth, to what extent can it be said that the consumers are in fact getting what they want? Given half a chance, many of us would buy non-crap instead. But the non-crap option isn't available. So I conclude that the market for "government" in its present state isn't responsive enough to people's actual desires and preferences.

Plus there's always the fun of cracking jokes about the political class...

Posted by: Michael Blowhard on March 11, 2004 9:53 AM

"I'll find myself thinking, y'know, our governing class is like the Detroit auto industry in the '60s and early '70s -- they're selling expensive, lazy crap that suits their greed and convenience rather than our preferences. Which is where I think Tim's argument falls down -- if the choice is between a crap Ford and crap Plymouth, to what extent can it be said that the consumers are in fact getting what they want? "

Holy cow---not only do I find that a compelling description of our politics, but, a compelling description of everything about life that is irritating and unfair. I feel renewed just reading it!! (Ah, some days it takes just little things...).

Posted by: annette on March 11, 2004 10:50 AM

Glad to hear it hit the spot. Phew: you're usually a tougher audience!

Posted by: Michael Blowhard on March 11, 2004 11:40 AM

In my perfect political world, a reliable lie-detector test would screen out all Congressional and Presidential candidates who actually *want* to be elected. I'd much prefer and trust someone who might finally relent after a mass pleading, who might grudgingly set aside their innate, kicking-and-screaming reluctance to accept any position of authority over another. I'm sick of being ruled over by ego-saturated pathologies and by dynasties of the entitled.

Posted by: Tim B. on March 11, 2004 11:40 AM

So, gosh, which one of us moved??

Posted by: annette on March 11, 2004 12:01 PM

To step back toward the tone that I think Michael intended, I have three suggestions and one second:

1) I'll second the idea that for every law or regulation passed or promulgated, at least one must be repealed.

2) No law or regulation may exceed 100 (?) words in length.

3) Each law or regulation must be understandable by 80% of a statistically significant sample of 9th graders in the area to which it applies, determined by an actual test. The understanding of said 9th graders to govern the implementation of the law. (Note that there are two ways to get around this; I'm OK with either.)

8-)

Posted by: Doug Sundseth on March 11, 2004 12:15 PM

David Sucher: No political class? Are you kidding? With gerrymandered seats in the House making only a very, very small percentage of them competitive? With ballot access laws in nearly all States that keep anyone not annointed by the 2 major parties from running for any state-wide or Federal office?
When the primary systems keep moderate candidates who might actually reflect the beliefs and feelings of the majority from being nominated?

Remember what the old Chicago machine politician said, that if he gets to control the nominating, he didn't care who does the electing.

Posted by: David Mercer on March 11, 2004 7:45 PM

Michael, in re only having a choice between unsatisfactory cars.....it would be amusing to get competition between governments if it were possible to vote in a foreign government, and of course, to be able to replace *that* government if it failed to please.

Posted by: Nancy Lebovitz on March 13, 2004 6:35 AM

David Mercer.
I did not say that there is not some way to cobble-together a description of some group of people and call them a "poitical class."
To me, that merely seems to be a way of proclaiming that one is a victim, which I do not think is a very useful idea, except as a way of excusing inaction.

Posted by: David Sucher on March 13, 2004 11:27 AM

In the early decades of this nation, most people were farmers, and so were most members of Congress.

Now most members of Congress have law degrees. Most citizens are not lawyers.

The distribution of professions in Congress has skewed farther and farther from that of the general populace.

That is what I, and I think Michael, meant by a political class.

Posted by: David Mercer on March 13, 2004 7:08 PM

Is there any factual basis to your assertion that "most members of Congress were farmers" in the early decades of this nation? I think that that is simply inaccurate.

(And I don't think that plantation-owners who ordered books and wine from Europe etc etc really qualify as "farmers.")

The rich and their representatives have always been in charge of America.

To claim that the "political class made me do it" is to rewrite history in order to claim -- I think -- victimhood and to justify irrepsonsibility.

Posted by: David Sucher on March 14, 2004 11:52 AM

Which is where I think Tim's argument falls down -- if the choice is between a crap Ford and crap Plymouth, to what extent can it be said that the consumers are in fact getting what they want?

Michael, if this is what you truly think elections are, you're not a "non-political person" as you've so often claimed. You're looking like just another anti-democratic cynic.

In the consumer marketplace, when consumers have the choice between "a crap Ford and a crap Plymouth," they don't buy either one. Instead, they buy a Buick, a Toyota, or a Saab -- something that they actually want.

So, too, in the political marketplace. But Americans' reluctance to embrace third-party and independent politics tells me that the current two-party system does give us what we want -- i.e., people who make sure we get our share (and preferably more) of federal/state/local goodies.

The problem with representative democracy is that it gives us exactly the kind of representation we ask for. Don't like what you have? Ask for something else. Just don't vote for your incumbent and then whine about how you had "no choice" in the matter.

Posted by: Tim Hulsey on March 15, 2004 4:17 PM

Actually, given the fiscal train wreck that is coming up on America very quickly (as in roughly the next decade or so) I think the chances for a significant political re-alignment may be quite a bit better than they have been during our adult lifetimes.

Mr. Hulsey:

I'm not sure I follow you in the logic expressed in your remark:

Americans' reluctance to embrace third-party and independent politics tells me that the current two-party system does give us what we want -- i.e., people who make sure we get our share (and preferably more) of federal/state/local goodies.

Surely you're aware of Public Choice arguments that point out that if everyone else is going for goodies, the only logical strategy is for you to do so too. I believe the economists refer to this as the 'tragedy of the commons.' Such problems aren't really solveable by private virtue, but require structural solutions. Lacking the option of 'voting for' such structural solutions, I'm not sure how much one can draw from the current voting activity of the American public.

Posted by: Friedrich von Blowhard on March 18, 2004 12:08 PM

I don't know Tim, the 2 main parties have dug themselves in to the point where I don't think there is much of a choice.

Just ask yourself, who do ballot access laws and campaign finance laws benefit the most? Why, shocker of shockers, the parties in power.

These days you just can not get on the ballot unless you have the blessings of one of the 2 major parties leadership.

I also think Mr. Sucher needs to look at the evolution of ballot access laws and the incumbency rates before he can declare that this country has 'no political class'. I don't like words being put in my mouth (I never said 'the political class made me do it', Mr. Sucher).

I agree that the rich have always run this and just about every country that's ever been. BUT it was not always so difficult to run for office here, and the House wasn't lifetime fiefdoms either. Christ the Senate is more competitive electorally!

Posted by: David Mercer on March 18, 2004 11:29 PM

What is this "Mr." stuff?

Posted by: David Sucher on March 19, 2004 12:47 AM

I think this question MUST be disscussed more carefully!

Posted by: подарки on April 4, 2004 6:30 PM






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