FWIW I did not raise the issue of lynchings, Mencius did.

Indeed. And would you care to guess the percentage of lynchees who were actually guilty of a serious crime? Could we agree that it is perhaps around 50?

Now guess the percentage of whites murdered by blacks who are actually fellow criminals. Now compare the two.

Presumably, as protectors and preservers of civilization, governments are most concerned by attacks by criminals on innocent people - the attacker being a criminal by definition. Don't you agree?

The American police force, as a general whole, Certainly did. Until about 1970 or so. Gee, what changed? Does it have anything to do with Bill Ayers, Saul Alinsky, and friends? Ya think?

Because criminals, of course, are people we don't really care about. Because we certainly do not belong to a political party that is fundamentally allied to criminal forces.

Associations: Al Capone - Saul Alinsky - Barack Obama. These are not two casual, random degrees of separation. They are serious professional connections. We know that Barry was a disciple of Saul, we know that Saul was a friend of Al. Frankly, if my connections with Mussolini or Franco or, yes, Hitler (Hitler! Hitler! I feel like I need to say "Hitler" a couple more times, just for emphasis, were anywhere near close to the Obama-Capone gap, I'd be in the deep, deep far end of right-wing extremist insanity. (Ie: Stormfront.)

When I talk with you, Chris, I am constantly reminded that your existence as an intellectual is a contingent consequence of the military force which shot Drieu la Rochelle and Robert Brasillach, exiled Celine and hanged Joyce. Your hands are the hands of the Allies. They are as bloody as anyone else's.

So please don't start talking to me about "Nazis" or "fascists" or "racists" or anything along that line. In fact, I'll go one further: you are officially free to attach me to any of these progressive hate labels.

For example, I've often proposed that the 800-channel world needs a new station called "Confederate Racist Television," which would produce a sort of video representation of thugreport.com, eventually with global correspondents. Are you going to deny that you, Chris White, would insist that any such channel be banned, its producers harassed into bankruptcy by the IRS, or something of the like?

Also FWIW I think the racial attacks on whites in South Africa, Zimbabwe and other African countries is horrific and deplorable. The overt violent racism of blacks in those and other situations is more abhorrent to me than mere expressions of racist opinions.

Chris, I am really glad for this note of conscience. In a cause this popular, simply to recant and admit guilt is a remarkable act of contrition. It cleanses the utterer of all responsibility, although it is valid only up to the present and never in future.

So in case you are tempted to backslide on the matter, please let me note a couple of things.

The first is your government's role in this crime. You are probably used to worrying about the crimes of your government overseas, but not in this way. You have an eagle eye for the crimes of the Defense Department. Wen it comes to the crimes of the State Department you have the approximate visual acuity of the average snail.

That is: you can see things, sort of, if they are shoved in your face. Let me shove something in your face, if you don't mind: this.

Please bear in mind that the author, Hermann Giliomee, whose name makes him sound like a hairy-backed, kaffir-hating Boer, is a legitimate historian of the approved CFR school, described hereas "one of the earliest and staunchest opponents of Afrikaner apartheid." And he is certainly not writing from my point of view.

I am particularly fond of this exchange:

Dave Steward, who would become Pres. FW de Klerk's main communications adviser, sums it up well: "PW Botha showed an absolute lack of understanding of modern political communication. Instead of addressing his real audience of hundreds of millions of TV viewers in the West, he addressed the NP faithful. Instead of language that his real audience could understand, he used the rough and tumble idiom of South African political meetings."

Ie: he was talking to his actual electoral constituency. You know, the people who voted for him. Under the sovereign constitution of his free and independent country At the very least, he was not talking to the Chris Whites of the world.

Do you know what the racist blog that Ms. Latte linked to is? It is called "South Africa Sucks," although its actual domain name tends to move around a little - Google has deleted it three times, always without warning the administrator. Or at least so he claims. I am skeptical - I don't endorse these people, and I certainly don't trust them.

SAS's standing advice to white people in South Africa is simple: leave. Pack for Perth. Do it now, before things get rough. You think they're rough now. You haven't seen anything.

Across the last century this advice has saved the lives of millions of white people who had to flee Africa, leaving their homes and possessions behind, moving involuntarily and without money to a land in which their former existence were despised as essentially criminal. SAS is giving it now. Are you?

In your defense, it's true that the SAS editor, the notorious "Uhuru Guru," is a deft man with Photoshop as well as a not half-bad writer, and his collection of primate stock photography is nothing if not impressive. (Actually, UG is the lamer half of the old SAS - the original editor, "The Real Realist," who was supposedly a veteran Johannesburg journalist, was far superior.) And the site really is loaded with general crap. Three-quarters of the posts are puerile, moronic, or both.

Nonetheless, a lot of people read it. More should.

Did you support the divestment movement, Chris? I'll bet dollars to donuts you did. In that case, I suggest that as a penance you first read the Real Realist's photo essay, The Death of Johannesburg, including all the comments (some of which, I'm sorry, are simply heartbreaking) and then at least skim SAS for the next three months. It won't feel good, but at the end you'll feel better.

Posted by: Mencius on October 7, 2008 11:06 PM

Tyr, stick around, even though it's a waste of time!

Tatyana, you had a hard day at work? It must've been those damn incompetent black "Beverlies." Your little diatribe is transparently saying "I'm no racist, it's just that Black people are stupid."

Posted by: Sister Wolf on October 7, 2008 11:30 PM

Tyr, thanks for being honest with us about your feelings. I sense, at least, sincerity.

Sister, do you really believe it's simply impossible, like a law of physics, for dermal albedo to correlate with stupidity? Please do explain.

Posted by: Mencius on October 7, 2008 11:52 PM

Actually, Tyr, please wait: I was only skimming your invective, and didn't notice that you yourself are black. Or whatever you guys tell us to call it these days.

Black people in America sometimes talk about something called "The Plan." Perhaps you've heard of it. The CIA is selling crack. Or whatever conspiracy. But it is a conspiracy to keep black people on the bottom, where they always seem to end up.

Now, think about for this for a minute. Whatever this Plan is, it has (a) been orchestrated by white people, (b) has served the interests of white people, and (c) has caused black peoples' interests to suffer (versus the conditions of 1958, in which the black community was obviously much healthier). (c) is observed by inspection. We are left to consider (a) and (b).

Our first task is to figure out which side of the American political divide this mysterious organization is found on. The obvious guess would be the side that controls the intellectual institutions of white society. Ie, the educational and managerial side. Ie, the blue side. Ie, the Democrats.

Note that this is also the winning side, generally. See the above link to Proposition 14. Over the last 50 years, public opinion - at least on the subjects you seem principally concerned with - has moved decidedly to the left. And American black culture and society have declined.

How can we explain these observations? It's quite simple, actually.

Over the last two generations, the American black community has become dependent on the American left, who have addicted American blacks to government payments, and thus made them at the very least clientes in the old Roman sense of the word. There are other analogies, some of which are far less flattering to the relationship.

This generosity has not been extended out of personal sympathy. Rather, blacks perform two vital services for Washington's permanent government. They supply a pool of friendly votes, and they are, or at least can be taught to be, violent and destructive.

The relationship is indirect, however, which permits the Chris Whites of the world to claim all kinds of plausible deniability, when in

So yes, African-American readers - you are the help. But, fortunately, your mind is restrained by lies rather than your body by chains, and you can free yourself without even moving. And then it'll be Nat Turner squared.

Basically, the real masters of America are the people behind this link. "Whiterpeople" are using the American black community half as a political tool, half as an outright weapon. Principally, they are being used to subdue and destroy the enemies of the SWPL people, the red-staters, whom I call "Vaisya" or "Proles" or "Amerikaners."

If black Americans ever wake up and realize that the red-state Americans they are supposed to hate are actually their best practical allies, and their present masters are their real enemies, the demise of the regime which at present oppresses them will be swift indeed.

If not, as I expect, the Plan will continue until we renegade whitepeople can pull it off ourselves. My advice for American blacks is to live peacefully and forget about politics. Many, of all skin colors, in all eras and on all continents, have benefited from this advice. So please do not take it as condescending.

In particular, please note that your skin color tells me nothing about your character, identity, or even intelligence - since statistical generalizations about sets of human beings cannot possibly tell us anything useful about individuals.

(Perhaps this is what Chris White is trying to say. I'm sure it's a statement we can all agree on. I endorse it completely and without reservation - not to curry anyone's favor, just because it is an obvious consequence of mathematics. Y'all may still feel free to call me a racist, although I am half-Jewish so the anti-Semite stuff falls a bit short.)

Posted by: Mencius on October 8, 2008 12:18 AM

Also, if anyone is a total masochist and wants a more personal connection to the events discussed above, this page (which is, of course, neither complete nor currently updated) ought to do. It is very similar in effect to the scene with the board of Kenyan real-estate listings in Africa Addio.

Posted by: Mencius on October 8, 2008 12:29 AM

Mencius, you mean "the real masters of America" are yuppies?!

Posted by: Sister Wolf on October 8, 2008 4:17 AM

Hey, Sister Wolf, I did not mention Jews at all in my post, so I don't know why you're asking if there is any proof that would make me not consider them vermin. I'm assuming there is because I don't consider them vermin...at all.

I do hate the fact that most of our politicians are suppose to kiss the ring of AIPAC if they wish to run for major office.

My point is as a white man, I can be discriminated against for my race. I sit at work and listen as my minority colleagues demand that their group be given promotions because they're (fill in the approved minority). I mean stop and really picture that. I'm suppose to sit there and what...smile? Who is the tyrant in that situation?

They're willing to take some of my rights now...and, therefore, I conclude that there's a good chance they will be more than happy to take more of my rights in the future. I base this on what I see going on around me and in the country. And what I see, chris white, is not "equality."

So, I dont feel like being part of the bullshit any longer. I believe that is part of the anger you are hearing here.

sN

Posted by: sN on October 8, 2008 4:40 AM

Mencius: "Plan will continue until we renegade whitepeople can pull it off ourselves."

What motivates renegade Whiterpeople? Serious question in response to your mind-blowing writing.

Posted by: PA on October 8, 2008 8:32 AM

Tatyana – Perhaps I misconstrued your comment. Apparently you intended it to be limited to your personal experience with Affirmative Action programs in education and business and not, as I thought from the far wider scope of the thread, directed at intolerance in a wider context. The vehemence and nature of so many comments led me to read it more broadly. The common form of racial animosity directed toward blacks is based on their presumed inferiority. This often takes the form of a shorthand conceptual equation that assumes the darker an individual's complexion, the less intelligent, lazier and the more aggressive they are likely to be. The view of Jews is the polar opposite; Jews are assumed to be exceptionally intelligent and clannish, traits they use to maintain over representation among the elite, especially in finance, media and academia. When Mencius talks about the right rising up to crush democracy and speaks about how "the left controls the press and the educational system" I make the not too far fetched leap that Jews would not fair well in his version of Utopia. Given that he notes his own Jewish ancestry one wonders how well HE would fare if the anti-democratic revolution of his dreams were to come to pass. I suspect not as well as he anticipates.

Patrick – It is true that tossing out a couple of cherry-picked (although not bogus) statistics proves nothing. My quick Google search for crime stats was precipitated by Mencius intimating that the total number of lynchings of blacks was small compared to the annual number of whites murdered by blacks. This is undoubtedly true. It is also a fallacious and facetious attempt at determining how many wrongs make a right. So the question is, where is your vehement denunciation of Mencius for using such fraudulent debating tactics? You show your own elevated approach by joining Shouting in firing a thesaurus worth of insults at me. Although I did appreciate their amusingly alliterative beat ... "prig ... priss ... panache ... prevarications" quite poetic. Would it be my attempt at avoiding direct personal attack that earns me the epithets of prig and priss? Should I trade school yard jibes with you and Shouting? "I'll see your Creep and raise you a Cretin!" Would that be more 'manly'? You boys really do need to grow up.

Mencius – Granted South Africa is a mess. Most of the fault lies with the leadership of the country and the inability of its citizens to pull themselves out of a situation created, or at least exacerbated by, generations under apartheid. It is tragic. If, however, you are suggesting that this somehow proves the innate superiority of whites or the benefits of apartheid I will continue to disagree with the premise. As it happens an acquaintance of mine is a white artist originally from SA. His father was killed in the period before the apartheid era ended, apparently for supporting and organizing gatherings of artists that included all races.

For what it's worth, we do agree on a variety of points such as "skin color tells me nothing about your character, identity, or even intelligence - since statistical generalizations about sets of human beings cannot possibly tell us anything useful about individuals."

Posted by: Chris White on October 8, 2008 8:44 AM

Tyr: your concern trolling skills need some work.

Um, what? My what? What are you talking about?

More than ever, I'm now convinced that Nat Turner was the greatest American who ever lived. And what's happening to those goddamn peckerwoods in Zimbabwe and South Africa is FANTASTIC.

What difference does it make? We're trying to have a discussion here. You like this, you don't like that. Who asked you? What bloody difference does it make what you FEEL about anything?

So you hate white people. So what?

Posted by: PatrickH on October 8, 2008 9:11 AM

Chris, I'm well aware how Jews are percieved by the rest of humanity (hmmm...humanity seems a strange word in this context). There is a saying, in Russian, from the times of Civil War (1917-1920): "Reds are coming - be prepared for pogroms; whiteguards are coming - be prepared for pogroms, and when the Greens are coming - say goodbye to dear life" ("greens" refers to Independent Anarchist Movement's bandits).
Having that thought at the back of my mind has taught me to value equality in civil rights. As soon as one group or the other gets preferential treatment, unconnected to merit, the equality no longer exists. More unearned benefits = more animosity from all other groups in society, which in turn, supplies the privileged group with nominal excuse for more discrimination claims. More tension coupled with difficult economic situation = prerequisites for fascism.

What about your own survival instinct, Chris? The Left created current inequality; you promoted it, you actively worked to advance the unfair advantage of undeserving - and now, when S starts HTF, you advocate for more of the same "cure" for society's ills you yourself messed up?

You're the one doomed, Chris.

Posted by: Tatyana on October 8, 2008 9:55 AM

My response: no that isn't racist. As someone who believes in racial separation, I know what racism is and that wasn't it.

Posted by: Michael T on October 8, 2008 10:15 AM

Chris, glad you liked the alliterations. :-)

As for denouncing Mencius for his use of stats: well, Mencius Moldbug may mislead in matters mathematical, misconstrue meanings with malice aforethought, mangle models, and be (mostly, more or less, maybe) a mean, misanthropic man whose meretricious maunderings move mountains of…mainly manure methinks, to massively malodorous effect and make the most mild-mannered men into murderous maniacs. Or even mouthbreathers.

Meanwhile…

His point stands.

Posted by: PatrickH on October 8, 2008 11:36 AM

Tyr, the only people that used the word, "nigger", were Sister Wolf and Chris White. And once by Mencius when quoting Sister Wolf.

Unless you have this seething hatred for those that are agreeing with you, I am not sure who you are supposed to be baiting.

Posted by: Usually Lurking on October 8, 2008 11:53 AM

Like the sound the "m" makes, PatrickH? Such a lemony-morning, mmm-delicious, kissy-mouth letter, ah

Posted by: Tatyana on October 8, 2008 12:03 PM